《科技与金融》高端访谈栏目将连续多期对多位高层次外国专家进行专访，为产业的技术升级、产业转型把脉献策，探讨产业发展及国际合作等方面的机遇和挑战，为读者带来国际合作的经验借鉴与启发。
瑞泽普教授曾于1987年第一次来到中国，2017年来到南开大学任教，三十年间，他看到了中国翻天覆地的变化。“在我的专业领域——土木工程领域，中国已成为世界领先者。中国在桥梁和建筑领域的设计、施工能力在世界上首屈一指。”他认为，这与中国科研人员在工程领域的科研创新密不可分，希望自己也能为中国的发展做出贡献。
Professor Razaqpur came to China for the first time in 1987 and joined Nankai University as a teacher in 2017. Over the past three decades, he has witnessed greatchanges in China. "In my professional field of civil engineering, China has become a world leader. China's design and construction capabilities in the field of bridges and constructions are second to none in the world." He believes that this is inseparable from the scientific research innovation of Chinese researchers and hopes that he can also contribute to China's development.
本期《科技与金融》与瑞泽普教授进行了深入交流，以期对环境科学与土木工程领域的研究进展和科研成果转化现状有一个清晰的认知，并为我国的创新与绿色可持续发展事业提供参考意见。
This issue of "STF Monthly" has conducted an in-depth conversation with Professor Razaqpurto better understand the current situation of progress of research and transformation of scientific research achievements in the field of environmental science and civil engineering, with an aim of providing reference for the research and application in the eco-friendly and energy-saving buildings and ecological materials in Guangdong province.
本文首发于《科技与金融》 2020 年6月刊
采访丨李莹亮 文丨张孟月
翻译|靳松 图｜由受访者提供
Q：《科技与金融》记者
A：Abdul Ghani Razaqpur 教授
来到中国
Q：虽然您2017年加入南开大学，但您在过去的20年里都与中国的研究人员密切合作，请和我们聊聊您在中国的故事。
Q：Although it was in 2017 that you joined Nankai University, you have worked closely with Chinese researchers in the past 20 years. Could you share with us your story in China?
A：在1987年，为参加一个关于工程数值方法的会议，我第一次来到中国，还游览了北京和长城。我对中国的最初印象是，这里有着深厚的文化底蕴，中国人民待人友好。
A：In 1987, I came to China for the first time to participate in a conference on engineering numerical methods and I also visited Beijing and in particular, the Great Wall. My initial impression of China is that it has a profound cultural heritage and the Chinese people are friendly.
当时的中国经济相对贫穷、发展程度不够。2000年后，中国发生了巨大的变化，各个领域的快速发展在人类历史上是前所未有的，但这并没有改变人民的善良友好与热情好客。
At that time, China was relatively economically backward and underdeveloped. Since 2000, China has undergone tremendous changes and the rapid development invarious fields is unprecedented in human history, but the kindness and hospitality of Chinese people have remained unchanged.
中国的工程师和研究人员在科技领域取得的快速进步最令我惊讶。他们不仅赶上了其他国家的同行，而且在新技术研发方面也做出了重大贡献。
The rapid progress made by Chinese engineers and researchers in the field of science and technology surprised me the most. They not only caught up with their counterparts in other countries, but also made significant contributions to the development of new technologies.
今天，中国为科学家和工程师们提供了绝佳的机会和物质支持，让他们能在一个安全、令人振奋的环境中施展所学，不断精益求精。这些年来，我多次来到中国，与许多同行、友人进行了交流，希望能为这个在科学和工程领域逐渐崭露头角的国家做出贡献。
Today, China provides scientists and engineers with excellent opportunities and material support, so that they apply what they learn in a safe and exciting environment, and constantly strive for excellence. Over the years, I have been to China many times and communicated with many colleagues and friends. I hope that I can contribute to this country that is gradually rising in the field of science and engineering.
Q：作为一名在中国工作和生活的外国科学家，对您而言最具挑战性的事情是什么？
Q：As a foreign scientist working and living in China, what’s the most challenging for you?
A：最具挑战的是我对中文一窍不通，这不仅限制了我在科研合作方面的能力，也限制了我在街上与普通民众交流的能力，使我无法更好地理解和领悟中国的古老文明和丰富的艺术文化。
A：What is the most challenging is that I don’t know anything about Chinese language. This not only limits my ability in scientific research cooperation, but also limits my ability to communicate with ordinary people on the street, making it difficult for me to better understand the ancient civilization as well as the rich artand culture of China.
Q：在学术研究方面，您觉得在加拿大工作和在中国工作最大的区别是什么？
Q：In terms of academic research, what do you think is the biggest difference between working in Canada and working in China?
A：两个国家在很多方面并没有太大的差别，无论是加拿大还是中国，教授都被要求教授课程，指导研究生和博士的同时也要专注于科研工作。
A：There is not much difference between the two countries in many aspects, since either in Canada or China, professors are required to teach, guide graduate students and PhDs, and focus on scientific research as well.
不同的是，在加拿大，人们并不期望研究成果能很快应用于实践，而在中国，人们似乎一直强调要取得科研转化的成果。
What’s different is that in Canada, the research results are not expected to be quickly applied to practice, while in China, the transformation of scientific research seems to be always emphasized.
我认为，通常情况下，科研转化成果不会直接促进新发明的产生，最多是对现有技术的改进。
But I think that in most cases, the results of scientific research transformation will not directly promote the production of new inventions. Instead, they may simply be the improvement of existing technologies.
成果转化
Q：据您了解，生态材料技术在中国的应用情况如何？
Q：Based on your understanding, how is the application of ecological material technology in China?
A：我不确定中国在生态材料的使用上是否与其他国家有显著的不同，但我浅显的观察是，中国的建筑业从业者更倾向于寻找成熟可靠的技术。
A：I'm not sure whether China's use of ecological materials is significantly different from other countries, but my observation is that practitioners of construction industry in China are more inclined to seek reliable technologies from abroad.
这种情况并非中国独有，所以政府在相关机构的建筑中率先采用新技术并愿意接受潜在的失败风险很重要，他们的行动具有导向作用。新技术在第一次实施时很少是完美的，但我们必须去尝试，在实践中找出它的优点和缺点。
This situation is not unique to China, so it is important for the government to take the lead in adopting new technologies in the construction of relevant agencies and be willing to accept the potential risk of failure, since government’s actions have strong guidance. A new technology is rarely perfect when first implemented, but we must try and find out its advantages and disadvantages in practice.
Q：您认为，中国和加拿大在节能建筑设计方面的差异主要体现在哪里？
Q：What do you think is the main difference between China and Canada in the design of energy-efficient buildings?
A：正如我上面提到的，中国的很多建筑业从业者对在建筑领域使用生态材料和环保技术持观望态度。即使在建造新建筑物时使用再生骨料混凝土没有技术上和操作上的障碍，他们仍不愿意使用，这有点令人费解。
A：As mentioned above, many construction industry practitioners in China hold a wait-and-see attitude towards the use of ecological materials and environmental protection technologies in the construction field.
在建筑设计和施工方面，中国和加拿大都有严格的建筑设计规范，但这些规范的目的是防止建筑因居住、强风或地震而倒塌。加拿大有建筑能源法规，我想中国可能也有。但法规设定的是最低要求，而有能源意识的工程师和建筑师正试图在不让建造成本过于昂贵的情况下提高标准。
In building design and construction, both China and Canada have strict building design codes, whose purpose is to prevent buildings from collapsing due to residence, strong winds, or earthquakes. Canada has building energy regulations, and I think China may have similar regulations too. But what the regulations set are minimum requirements, and energy-conscious engineers and architects are working to raise standards without making construction too costly.
加拿大的节能建筑设计至少在40年前就开始了，而中国的节能建筑设计才刚刚起步，但中国在获取先进的知识和技术方面已经取得了卓越的进步。然而，据我不完全的了解，节约能源的知识在中国并没有像在加拿大那样得到广泛应用。所以，两国的差异主要是在节能设计的实践上，而非在技术上。
The design of energy-saving buildings in Canada has begun since at least 40 years ago, and China has just started in this aspect. But China has made remarkable progress in acquiring advanced knowledge and technology. I believe the difference between the two countries mainly lies in the practice of energy-saving design rather than in technology.
Q：研究人员需要与产业紧密合作以更好地提升人们的生活质量，在您的研究领域更是如此，请和我们分享一下您在两国的科研成果转化经历。
Q：Researchers need to work closely with the industry to better improve people's quality of life, especially in your research field. Please share with us your experience in the transformation of scientific research achievements in both countries.
A：在回答这个问题前，我认为必须区分研究和开发。就我研究的领域而言，大学的目的主要是培养未来的科学家和工程师，教导青年如何进行研究和探索新的想法；而开发特定的产品及其过程是企业或政府组织的责任。
A：Before I answer this question, I think it is necessary to distinguish between researchand development. As far as my research field is concerned, the main purpose of the university is to cultivate future scientists and engineers and guide young people to conduct research and explore new ideas. It is the responsibility of enterprises or government agencies to develop specific products and process.
在中国，企业更愿意应用成熟的、可操作性强的研究成果。这与我之前的文化不同。
As mentioned earlier, in China, companies are more willing to apply mature and practical research achievements, which is different from my practice in Canada.
在加拿大，工业界与各大学合作，支持有助于开发新技术的研究。一旦研究取得成果，企业就承担起将技术应用于该领域的任务。加拿大是世界上最寒冷的地区之一，加拿大的建筑技术也是寒冷地区最好的之一。所有的建筑都有很好的隔热性能，对门窗的节能有严格的要求，因此，能量损失相对较小。这是因为加拿大近年来在利用被动式太阳能、地热和建筑采暖热回收方面做了更多的努力，不但有相关研究，也积极地应用于实践，最终取得了不错的成果。
In Canada, industry collaborates with universities to support research that helps develop new technologies. Once the research yields results, enterprises will assume the task of applying the technology to a certain field. Canada is one of the coldest regions in the world, and Canada’s construction technology is also one of the best in cold regions. All buildings have good thermal in sulation performance and meet strict requirements for energy saving of doors and windows. As a result, there is relatively little the energy loss. This is because Canada has made more efforts in the use of passive solar energy, geothermal heat and heat recovery system for building heating in recent years. Not only has there been relevant research, but also frequent application inpractice, thus achieving good results.
两国的情况并不相同，但我希望在不久的将来，我们能找到合适的业界伙伴进行研究成果的转化合作。
Al though the conditions in the two countries are different, I hope that we can find suitable industry partners to cooperate in the transformation of research achievements in the near future.
建言献策
Q：您对我国的环保节能建筑和生态材料的研究有什么建议?
Q：What is your advice on the research of eco-friendly and energy-saving buildings and ecological materials in China?
A：如前面提到的，我希望减少能源的使用来调节已占用的建筑空间，这可以通过选择合适的建筑材料、合理规划建筑特点来实现，因地制宜、具体问题具体分析。
A：As mentioned above, my focus is on reduction of energy use for conditioning the occupied building space. This can be achieved by choosing appropriate building materials and rationally planning building characteristics. Local conditions should be taken into consideration and decisions should be made based on specific conditions.
对建筑的最终设计必须基于严格的计算机模拟技术和大型的实验室或实地信度效度进行测试。浅显的计算和不切实际的假设不会带来理想的结果。这类工作需要一个多学科的团队，包括建筑师、机械师、土木工程师、材料工程师、控制系统的专家、建筑开发商和建筑商等等。
The final design must be based on rigorous and advanced computer simulation techniques and some large scale laboratory or field validation. Superficial calculations and unrealistic assumptions will not lead to desirable outcomes. This type of work requires a multi-disciplinary team, including architects, mechanics, civil engineers, materials engineers, control system experts, building developers and builders, etc.
在环保材料方面，我们可以更快取得成功：首先，在新建筑中使用拆除混凝土并不需要更多的研究，我们现在已经有足够的知识和经验来实施这项技术；其次，用粉煤灰和矿渣代替能源密集型硅酸盐水泥的做法也很成熟；最后，在世界范围内，使用可再生材料：木材有着悠久的历史，因此，采用混凝土-木材混合结构或钢-木材复合结构是可行的。我在加拿大获取的经验表明，木墙不仅建造较容易，而且具有很高的能源效率，内墙也可以制成隔音、模块化和预制的。
In the aspect of eco-friendly materials, we can achieve success sooner. Firstly, the use of demolition concrete in new buildings does not require further research. We already have the necessary knowledge and experience to implement this technology. Secondly, the use of fly ash and slag instead of energy intensive Portland cement is well developed and is fully implementable. Finally, the use of renewable materials is possible worldwide: the use of wood has a long history, so it is feasible to adopt a hybrid concrete-wood or a steel-wood composite construction. My experience in Canada shows that wood walls are not only easier to build, but also have high energy efficiency, and the internal walls can also be made soundproof, modular, and prefabricated. STF
（南开大学王冰教授对本文编校亦有贡献。）
（本文刊登于《科技与金融》杂志2020年6月刊，欢迎订购本刊，如需转载，请注明来源：科技与金融杂志。否则，将追究相关责任。）
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